the $400 billion on the table with obama care or with medicare that the republicans deny cuts. who is telling the truth here? >> well, the real issue is whether you're cutting things to beneficiaries or using those cuts to really transform the system to make it more modern. and i think as they did in the campaign, they are trying to say this will harm beneficiaries. but you can make cuts without harming beneficiaries. we released a report where we had $385 million in cuts to medicare and without taking it out of beneficiaries. . >> so this is a valid proposal of savings of $400 billion, but republicans deny that. >> the president has put on a bold proposal. the important thing i would say is, there's one way of cutting. you just whack the system. take money out. make what you pay the doctors or hospitals less. but the real interesting and important thing is to try to transform the system going forward so that we're not spending increases well beyond inflation or the growth in gdp. that's going to be the key. >> so part of the transformation here would be to allow medicare to ne